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 Robbing God?, Tithing Truth (10 Replies, Read 347 times)
tntman
Posted on # November 13, 2009, 3:31 pm
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In many churches, a 10% "tithe" of your income is required for leadership and membership.  In the blatant misrepresentation of God's Word, trusting people are taught to pay 10% of their gross income to the "church" (in many cases, it simply goes straight into a pastors ministerial account). 

Shockingly, there is NOT ONE VERSE ever given to Christians or the churches in the New Testament instructing anyone to pay "your tithes".  Most of them resort to a twisting of old covenant ordinances from a Covenant God never made with us.  They will often use Malachi 3:8 which says 
"Will a man rob God? yet ye rob me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
 
The last time I heard Mal 3:10 quoted in
church, the Lord drew my attention to vs. 7 before it: “ye are gone away from my
ORDINANCES”
He asked me “what ordinances were those?”
As I studied and
prayed for the answer, it dawned on me it was the ordinances of the (Old Testament) Law.
But
the NEW Testament says “Christ is THE END of the Law to all that believe..”- Romans 10:4. and then again St. Paul said in Eph.
2:15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances

As I studied further, it was discovered none of the apostles ever once
told any church or saint to tithe

Then I discovered that the tithe was NEVER money, it was ALWAYS food.
Here is a Bible Word search.  Just select Old Testament, enter: "tithe", and presto! See for yourself... 
Someone redefined the tithe into money. We have the new breed of “moneychangers”, transubstantiating the edible tithe into a cozy income for the hired ministry.
Some try to justify tithing using Abraham, back in Genesis. But Abraham only tithed ONE TIME, and that from the spoils of war which was not his top begin with.
Then Abe turned right around and gave the other 90% away!  

The church will say"but tithing was BEFORE the Law".
There were many practices given before the law. Only one tithe is found before the law, and that was from the spoils of war. Other tithes are mentioned but not as an expected custom to follow until the law was given. 

Tithing of agricultural products, produce and livestock, was commanded in the Law. But not money. That is why fishermen, tent makers, pottery makers, and even bankers paid no tithes.  

Later, Jesus said in  Mat 23;23 "tithing is of the matters of the law..."
-Now remember, under the law, the tithe was ALWAYS edible, NEVER money, and NONE of Christ's disciples taught the churches to tithe.
I think we have all been robbed by an institution that has redefined tithing for its’ own benefit.

We now give directly to meet the needs of the brethren and others and what a blessing it is to do so.

While you are thinking about this, you might ask yourself, where in the Bible does it say pastors should live from the tithes? -either food OR money?

-And why didn't St. Paul, Peter, or any other of the apostles even once remind the Christians to pay a tithe?

-And why didn't Jesus ever pay tithes of either money or food?
-and why didn't anyone in the original church as found in the book of Acts even once instruct the new churches to tithe?
If it was so important for us to be blessed and not rob God, you think the church would have regularly reminded the churches about tithing, but they never did.Tithing was done away by the cross of Christ. 




Edited by tntman : June 5, 2010, 12:55 pm

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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # November 14, 2009, 10:36 am | Post: 1
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Since the New Testament church in the scriptures never taught tithing, what did Jesus and the disciples teach?
  • Did they teach a weekly collection for the overhead and support of the building and expenses?
  • How many "church" buildings did Jesus build?
  • How many "fundraisers" and "building fund" projects did the disciples of scripture promote?
  • How many churches of scripture owned a business?
  • -Of course the answers to the above are a big fat ZERO.  
These are all inventions of men that have departed from the scriptures. Here is what the Bible does teach in regard to Christian giving:
  • 2 Corinthians 9:9    (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
  •  Galatians 2:10    Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
  • Romans 15:26    For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
  •   :angel:    Now here's a doozy from St. Paul: in 2Corinthians 9:
  • vs1) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I gave order to the churches of Galatia, so also do ye. 2    Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.
  • Now how many times have you heard that MIS-quoted in order to feed the offering plate? what do we really have here?
  • The collection was FOR the saints... from the more well-to-do churches. And notice that Paul said "NO COLLECTIONS be made when he came? How many times do you hear a preacher pass up on the opportunity to TAKE from the saints? 
  • Paul continued in this matter in 2Cor. 9:
  •  For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
  • Notice this right after he said who to give to: 
  • 6)  But this I say, He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
  • Quite a different story than you get from the pulpit. Note, it was for the saints, not for the building or organization. Now that you understand WHO the "blessing" went to, the next verse makes much better sense: 7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
  • Now read the next few lines carefully as you see he did not concern himself with paying a pastor or the building fund:
  • 9)  as it is written, He hath scattered abroad, he hath given to the poor; His righteousness abideth for ever.
  • 10 And he that supplieth seed to the sower and bread for food, shall supply and multiply your seed for sowing, and increase the fruits of your righteousness:
  • 12 For the ministration of this service (their giving to the needy) not only fills up the measure of the needs of the saints, but abounds also through many thanksgivings unto God;
  • Sadly, the modern church exploits, disdains, and takes from the poorer members of their flocks. But hey, they get a tax break for charitable giving....
  •  Do you doubt this?  See who gets their phone call returned from the pastor,  a nice clean buisness owner or executive. -or a smelly, needy poor person. Or a stranger in need.  
  • Matthew 25:45    Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. and how 'bout that recorded tax deductible giving?
  • Jesus said:  Matthew 6:4    That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.


Edited by tntman : November 17, 2009, 9:36 am

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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # November 17, 2009, 4:45 pm | Post: 2
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Brother Glover:  an EX-pastor of 25 years tells the truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DZvX_fPIMI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DZvX_fPIMI&feature=related




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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # December 16, 2009, 3:14 pm | Post: 3
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I was speaking with my cousin from
Idaho yesterday.  She attends a local institutional 501c3 church.
  She said she did not believe tithing was a bad thing.
 
I started by asking her how God defined the tithe.
She looked.  It was always food produced in Israel.  
I asked her to search for money in the Bible.  Money was ... money.
The tithe was food. every time.
I asked where did God say the tithe was changed into
money in the New Testament? she was not sure...  :-x   
In Gods Word,  It never was changed into money. 
She mentioned the Levites and tried to compare them to NT
ministers.
I asked her who is a priest in the New Testament?She went to
Hebrews. She seemed to think there was a link between the Levites and the
clergy. the Levitical priesthodd ceased. Hebrews 7: 12   
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
I told her WE are a KINGDOM of priests unto God (gave her
verse  Revelation 1:6    and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father.)
Quote
and 1st Peter 2:5    you also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

I showed her in Hebrews where the Levites (Old Testmnt priests) had a 
COMMAND to take tithes of their brethren.
I asked her: "where in scripture does 
a NT minister have a command to take tithes of their
brethren?" :::: there is none:::::
 
I told her tithing is evil because it corrupts Gods servants and teaches the people to not meet the needs of the poor and needy.They would not hear God in directing them in giving, but instead would be subject to manipulation and passing off their personal responsibility to minister over to the institution.
Thus they will feed the offering plate rather than those in need.
 In doing so, they are robbing God.
She had to agree.

Edited by tntman : January 14, 2010, 8:30 am

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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # December 22, 2009, 8:22 am | Post: 4
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Anyone can prove the above statements by looking for themselves at what the Bible (God's Word) says for itself, without the twisted reasonings of men:  :goodidea:  
HERE is a Bible search engine. Simply enter "tithe"  and it will return every verse in the Bible where God defines what was tithed.   :goodidea:  
Next enter "money".  You will NEVER find a single verse where the actual tithe was paid in money to a minister.  
In the New Testament, ministers worked and helped support the weak and needy, as they were commanded to by God. -no tithes, no salaries, no professional, titled clergy.
2 Thessalonians 3:10    For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
St. Paul commanded the bishops of the church to work as he (Paul) had done as an example to the leaders of the church in Ephesus.Acts 20:34    Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all, how that so laboring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.  :-x  (he was speaking to the BISHOPS, not the guy in the pew...)
well, I could go on with many, many more passages on this.  Some of the original apostles had given themselves over to a life of prayer and ministry of scripture and God provided for them.  They were not wealthy nor did they build church buildings and fund raise.  :tea:  They did heal the sick, cast out devils, and God confirmed their words with signs and wonders, unlike the typical church.  Thank God there are people of faith who still walk in the old paths of the original church..  You can read about them in your New Testament....Praise the Lord Jesus!

Edited by tntman : December 23, 2009, 9:34 am

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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # January 5, 2010, 10:16 am | Post: 5
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From Mark:
Quote
We own our church, parsonage, and additional land. Our pastors salary is 40,000.00 plus car allowance, utility allowance, internet allowance, and an annual $3000.00 furniture allowance. Basically he get's $40,000.00 plus all expenses paid and lives in a very nice 20 year old house built for him right next to our church.With his wifes income they are probably the most well to do members of our church. At the time I called the meeting we were debt free. We had $10,000.00 in the check book. The problem was $9,500.00 of it had been collected for special projects, a audio-visual fund,an energy fund and more. We have now managed to squander most of our money since then, what do we do?

What a great deal typical of the clergy-class. Too bad there is no scriptural authority for setting up a pastor with this kind of support. (unlesss they are hirelings and CEO's of a non-profit 501c3 corporate business structure masquerading as a church)  No wonder they are corrupted by a system that seduces them into a cushhy lifestyle. 
St. Paul worked and told the bishops of the church to do likewise. He told them NOT "to take the oversight" for "filthy lucre". 
Jesus told His disciples "freely you have received, freely give". 
The gospel was never meant to be exchanged for tithes, salaries, or a the reward of a hireling. 

Edited by tntman : January 5, 2010, 10:16 am

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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # January 9, 2010, 8:02 pm | Post: 6
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The simple truth is the tenth was defined by God as food produce, not money. .
The modern “moneychangers” in Gods house are still misleading Gods people for which they benefit..

The simple New Testament truth is that not a single one of the apostles, (you know, the guys who wrote the New Testament from God), not a single apostle or elder even once instructed any church or saint to tithe.

We are commanded to meet the NEEDS of the poor and needy, not fund buildings and organizations, or clergy lifestyles.

Repeat: there is not a single verse in the New Testament instructing any saint of church to tithe EITHER foodstuffs or money.

If you think there is a New Testament command to tithe, send me the Bible verses. heydadd@pacbell.net


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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # January 11, 2010, 9:13 am | Post: 7
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Chris wrote:
Quote
attach a list of 10 lies currently being pushed on believers
today....
 
These are in addition to :-
 a) Tithes are on money earned and not food from
Israel onlyb) Tithes should be given to pastors or churches
...and not Levites
c) The local church is the
'storehouse'
d) Tithes apply to Gentiles as well as
Jews 
e) Tithes can received by people who own
land
 
I would guess most have encountered these others
too
 
Lie #1 You are robbing God if you don’t
tithe
 
Those who teach tithing as a New Testament requirement are
clearly the thieves and are robbing God’s sheep. (Acts 20:29-35)

 
Lie #2 God won’t rebuke the devourer if you don’t
tithe
 
Jesus defeated Satan on the cross…we walk in His victory by
faith and not by our works of the Law (Rom 16:20)
   
Lie #3 God won’t bless you unless you tithe
 
God HAS blessed us with EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ
Jesus  (Eph1:3)

 
Lie #4 Tithing is an act of faith
 
Doing works of the Law proves you have NO FAITH (Gal
3:12)
 
Lie #5 Tithing is an act of obedience
 Tithing is part of trying to earn your own salvation (Luke
18:10-14)
 
Lie #6 God cannot use you unless you tithe
 
Gal 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive
the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so
foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the
flesh?    NKJV
 
Lie #7 Tithings is an eternal moral Law……where does the
Bible say this?
 
Jesus and Paul say that the requirement to tithe IS A MATTER
OF THE LAW!
Are you telling me they were mistaken?
 
Lie #8 Abraham tithed and we should follow his
example
 
The references to Abrahams tithing are descriptive and not
PRESCRIPTIVE. We are only called to follow his example of faith! (Not of his
lying…or marrying a sister, etc)
The bible only ever says that Abraham gave a tithe of the
spoils (Heb 7:4)…and NOT of any of his own wealth. It does not say that he ever
gave a tithe again.
 
Lie #9 Tithes are first…ie ‘off the top’….and the same as
‘first-fruits’ 
 
First-fruits are the first part of crop or flock - tithes
were set aside through the year
First-fruits were an offering to God…tithes were FOOD given
to the Levites in lieu of getting a share of the land of Israel   
(Ex 23, Lev 2 and Deut 26)  
 
Lie # 10 Tithing is a spiritual revelation……which only
spiritual people receive
 
Since when does the Spirit of Truth reveal things to us which
are CONTRARY to Gods Word? (‘Thy word is TRUTH’ John 17:17)


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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # January 21, 2010, 7:41 am | Post: 8
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Isn't it amazing how pastors want to use Abraham's tithe as an example for us
but then NOT use Paul as an example for themselves to follow!!!

--- In Tithing-Study@yahoogroups.com,
"heydadd" <heydadd@... wrote:
 
We devoted a
chapter or two about this in our free book The Tithe That Binds.
 
 1.
Paul told the "bishops" at Ephesus to work and support the weak and
 needy. Paul did exactly that for 3 years while ministering there. He
 took nothing as AN EXAMPLE that the "overseers" should do likewise. Acts
 20, link is below..
 2. He did the same at Corinth
 3. He did the
same at Thessalonica. He told THE CHURCH, (ALL hte church)
 there that "if any didn't work, they were not to eat".
 
 4. Jesus sent the disciples out to preach, heal, cast out devils, raise
 the dead in Matthew 10. He told them not to get gold or silver, take no
 wallet.
 This was so they would LEARN TO LIVE BY FAITH, and God would
 supply their needs.

 5. Peter told leaders not to take oversight for "filthy
lucre". -that is  become a hireling, like the wolves and extortioners 
do.
 6. No pastor has a single verse giving him
authority to demand or expect a salary or tithes.
 
 see Pauls
leadership Conference
  http://preparehisway.com/weekly_blog/view/520/pauls__leadership_semi\
 nar_

Edited by tntman : January 21, 2010, 7:43 am

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Robbing God?
tntman
Posted on # January 21, 2010, 9:42 pm | Post: 9
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Kevin wrote:
Quote
I know of situations in the NT where the teaching was of giving was sound. If a
church were following the example of the NT, there would be no overhead. 100% of
the donations would go to the needy. The leaders of the church would lead by
examle. He would be the hardest "worker" and a giver of much. They would not
take some of the donations for themselves. They would provide for themselves and
help provide for others. Pastors try to say that they are giving their time. NO!
they are getting paid for their time. The time they spend doing the "work of the
ministry" does not count as "giving of themselves" nor "sacrificing their life".
They get paid to do it.

Quote
HI Stephen, I hear your question and I will give my best answer.
You and I are like most Americans, "brain washed". We have been raised with the "church". 
We call the building the church and look to our pastors as priest and many more things we do that have no NT scriptures to explain why.
Many false teachings and assumptions are grained into us. Your question is what can we do to help the pastor and their congregation transition in a gracious way?
It sounds as you
think that if a "church" transitions from tithing to grace giving it will
be fixed. If it stops the false teaching of tithing yet continues to keep
spending most of the donations on the building and the pastor, it is still far
from fixed. My short answer is it can't be done and "tithing" isn't the biggest
problem the church has.
If a church was willing to embrace the NT scriptures
over the traditions of men that have been handed down to them, they would sell the building, challenge the pastor to get a job, organize rotation of meeting at peoples homes, take turns speaking and listening so that all my teach and learn, take individual responsibility to help provide for needy folk in their life, and come in agreement to give corperatley for some bigger needs. 
This 
transition, like transitions in the OT are not gracefull, but are messy with
much rebuke and are only successful if the ones being rebuked see the error of their ways. Our responsibility is speak the truth in love, hope and pray God 
opens their eyes, live our faith in the correct manner, and not condone their
false teaching by joining them.
Kevin
 





Edited by tntman : January 21, 2010, 9:44 pm

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Tithing from the Law
tntman
Posted on # April 7, 2010, 10:56 am | Post: 10
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A bit of tithing excerpt from the Law.And from a covenant God never made with the church, from which false teachers use to yoke tithing on their assemblies. Notice what the tithe consists of, and what God told them to do with it.   :2thumbup:  

22 Thou shalt surely tithe all the increase of thy seed, that which cometh forth from the field year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose, to cause his name to dwell there, the tithe of thy grain, of thy new wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herd and of thy flock; that thou mayest learn to fear Jehovah thy God always.

24   
And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is too far from thee, which Jehovah thy God shall choose, to set his name there, when Jehovah thy God shall bless thee;

25   
then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thy hand, and shalt go unto the place which The Lord thy God shall choose:

26   
and thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thy soul desireth, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul asketh of thee; and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thy household.

27 And the Levite (the old testament priest) that is within thy gates, thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no portion nor inheritance with thee. (those priests could not own property) 

28 At the end of every three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase in the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

29 and the Levite, because he hath no portion nor inheritance with thee, and the sojourner, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thy hand which thou doest.

Yes, the Lord told them to bring that THIRD YEAR TITHE to Jerusalem after exchanging it for of money, and to ENJOY IT THEMSELVES!   :tea:  - when they quote Malachi 2:9 about robbing God and bringing "ALL the tithes..." remember that one..  then take your family out for a wonderful meal and maybe a day or two at the coast.... 
-or feed someone who is in need, which is the higher and better law...


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